Welcome
Welcome to dallashistory

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple, and absolutely free, so please, join our community today!

We consist of current and former residents of the Dallas, Texas area. However, discussions vary widely about Dallas, History, Technology and wide topics from across the planet.

Ghosts

Everybody here is an adult, or expected to act like it. Religion can be a touchy subject, but if you can't take any honest discussion at all on what you believe, maybe you should re-evaluate your beliefs? An area to discuss such beliefs, thoughts, opinions and religious based news.

Photo from admin's cousin Rusty Jackson - www.Terra360.com

Moderator: Cedar

Ghosts

Postby Cedar on Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:40 am

After considering the Ouija Board and with that time of year being upon us, well ... what about the interesting topic of ghosts :?: :shock: It's a pretty deep and complex subject to consider - far beyond Caspar - when one pauses to ponder there ... touching the core of beliefs concerning the afterlife, the physics of existence, etc. For those who accept the possibility of ghostly presences among us, simplistic explanations of the phenomena can be offered ~ demonic 'impersonation' being one of them. Here, evil spirits are viewed as actors (wolves in sheep's clothing), who pretend to be the spirits of departed loved ones or historical personalities. Personally, this is a possibility which I take seriously, but don't feel that it fits every case. Far more common, in my view, is the overlapping of time and space ... during which the past, present, and maybe even the future - as we perceive them - interact. I do hope that this is the most common explanation of ghostly activity, because the idea that some spirits are unwilling or unable to move beyond earthly life is, of course, a very sad and troubling one.

So, I am a believer in 'ghosts' to a degree ... and a cautious one. My own experiences with Them, though, have been limited ... thankfully :!: since I am a scaredy cat :o and as I said, live near a cemetery. I do treat our neighbors with respect and really don't seek out their company beyond the casual hello (yes, I realize that they are probably not at home anyway, thank the Lord!) :arrow: Truly, I view 'our' cemetery - and all cemeteries - as a very holy place and live beside it as such. One of the disturbing things, for me, concerning 'ghost-hunting' in burial grounds is that this hallowed state is sometimes violated for entertainment purposes.

A few ghostly links ~

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost

http://tinyurl.com/yjnrsek

http://www.americancatholic.org/Features/Halloween/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day_of_the_Dead

And a few well-known 'haunted' places in North Texas. The story of the glowing tombstone in Springtown's Veal Station Cemetery was new to me, having missed its television news coverage. Oh, dear ... :(

http://tinyurl.com/ygshxw6

http://tinyurl.com/yfhgrtr

http://tinyurl.com/yl8s6aq

Another is the building which once housed Barber's Bookstore, in downtown Fort Worth. It does seem to have a sad vibe about it :|

http://www.fortwortharchitecture.com/barbers.htm

http://tinyurl.com/yljep2z

Neat thoughts and memories, beyond ghosts ~

http://tinyurl.com/yzcgsyo

http://tinyurl.com/yk4d3j8

My favorite story involves a female 'ghost' who supposedly haunts the beautiful, old Foster house, which now serves as headquarters at Fort Worth's Log Cabin Village. She is said to hang out upstairs and to be draped in a lovely gown of the mid-nineteenth century ... with full, leg-of-mutton sleeves. Prior to her appearance, a perfume of lilac suddenly scents the air, according to observers, and of course, the temperature drops (why is that such a common feature of hauntings I wonder :?: ).The Lady apparently found an unenthusiastic believer in the former, longtime curator of LCV, according to Docia Schultz Williams in her Best Tales of Texas Ghosts. The curator did not relish the necessity of venturing upstairs from time to time, but I confess that I would like to 'speak' with the Lilac Lady :?

http://www.logcabinvillage.org/tour-foster.html

http://tinyurl.com/ylqfjf3

A neat benefit of chasing the folklore surrounding ghost stories (if not the spirits themselves) is that one often discovers little parcels of history that otherwise would have rested unknown :)

Happy Halloween :!: :?

PS. According to Docia Schultz Williams, Olla Podrida - the wonderful old airplane-hanger-turned crafts mall in far North Dallas - was haunted by a trio of Victorian ladies but of course, the building is no longer with us :| Also, according to a paranormal website, the cemetery near which I live is "the scene of orbs and ecotplasmic occurances." These have bypassed me, or passed through me, or something ... and very thankfully :o

http://tinyurl.com/fknt
History as the new religion? I can live with that.

~ Tracy Chevalier
User avatar
Cedar
 
Posts: 1400
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:19 pm
Location: Tejas

Re: Ghosts

Postby survivingworldsteam on Tue Oct 27, 2009 12:05 pm

Holly;

Ronnie gave his reply in another forum as though we were all sitting around at a bar having a beer. Consider the following to be in the context of us all sitting around a fireplace drinking Cokes. :)

I know that science has examined the subject, and the only conclusion they can come to is stated in the Wikipedia article:

According to the Committee for Skeptical Inquiry, to date, there is no credible scientific evidence that any location is inhabited by spirits of the dead.


I certainly have no knowledge or experience with them; physically or spiritually. I went through a period of time where I experienced something that I think could best be attributed to night terrors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_terror

We know from reading the Bible that the Jews were a superstitious lot, who also believed in ghosts. Twice, the Bible mentions they saw what they thought were ghosts at first, but turned to be something different. One was Jesus walking on the water to the diciples's boat during a storm; the second was when Peter was freed by an angel from prison; when he knocked on the door where they were having a prayer meeting for his release, the girl who first opened the door thought he was a ghost. (I guess that shows how much faith she/they had in God answering their prayers....)

The Bible makes mention of angels appearing in the form of men; and know of at least one person to whom that has happened. They were warned by the stranger while at a gas station to take a different way home from the highway they were on. When they looked for them afterwards, the stranger could not be found; and he heard on the radio later that night that the road he was one was flooded by a levee break.

I believe that Satan and the angels that were cast out with him have the ability to do likewise. The "prophet Samuel" whom the witch of Endor summoned for Saul may have been just such an angel, since it told Saul that "to-morrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me," after already telling Saul that God had departed from him, and became his adversary. Others believe differently.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witch_of_Endor

In summary; I think most ghost stories are the product of our feeble senses and fertile imagination; mixed with some intervention by angels, both good and bad. And here is another ghost story, closer to Clyde than us:

http://www.bigthicketdirectory.com/ghostroad.html
User avatar
survivingworldsteam
 
Posts: 871
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 3:03 pm
Location: Texas

Re: Ghosts

Postby adam on Tue Oct 27, 2009 2:55 pm

Thanks for all the links. I don't believe in ghosts, never have seen them, hope I never will. I do find interesting the potential overlapping of time and space, however. Also, I often find walking at night in the woods that surround my house can be a very spooky activity. Reminds me of the time when I was young and delivered papers in the dark. I used to whistle while I walked, to keep myself from being scared. I can see why ancient, and not so ancient, peoples believed in ghosts. Even an unpredictable wind can be spooky sometimes. In the forest, little, and not so little, animals can make frightening noises. We have deer, moose, and bears around here, not to mention the occasional rabid raccoon. Some of my ancestors come from the Black Forest of Germany hundreds of years age, where all sorts of spooks, goblins, and scary creatures were known to frequent the deep forest. A movie about ghosts that I found to be very effective was titled Ghost, with the late Patrick Swayze, Demi Moore, and Whoopi Goldberg. Something about the way they wrote, directed, and acted that movie brought the whole possibility "alive", even for a ghost skeptic like me. I don't believe in angels, good or bad. I was on a jury once with a young adult (Catholic) woman who reported seeing angels hovering over her sick grandmother's bed to take her spirit away. She really believed what she was saying. I didn't press her for details. It seems strange to me when people try to use science to prove or disprove the existence or presence of ghosts or other forms of paranormal phenomena. IMO The place to look when hunting for ghosts is in the human imagination. By that means, operating through humans, ghosts can have real worldly presence, as with the famous real case of exorcism that led to the book and blockbuster movie by that name.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_(film)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Exorcist
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Exorcist_(film)

There was controversy.
Quote:
The Exorcist was also at the center of controversy due to its alleged use of subliminal imagery. A detailed article in the July / August 1991 issue of Video Watchdog examined the phenomenon, providing still frames identifying several usages of subliminal "flashing" throughout the film.[26] In an interview from the same issue, Friedkin explained, "I saw subliminal cuts in a number of films before I ever put them in The Exorcist, and I thought it was a very effective storytelling device... The subliminal editing in The Exorcist was done for dramatic effect — to create, achieve, and sustain a kind of dreamlike state."[27] However, these quick, scary flashes have been labeled "[not] truly subliminal"[28] and "quasi-" or "semi-subliminal"[29]. True subliminal imagery must be, by definition, below the threshold of awareness.[30][31][32][33] In an interview in a 1999 book about the movie, The Exorcist author William Blatty addressed the controversy by explaining that, "There are no subliminal images. If you can see it, it's not subliminal."[
End quote.
User avatar
adam
 
Posts: 1913
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 2:16 pm
Location: A remote little mountain cabin in New England

Re: Ghosts

Postby Ronnie on Tue Oct 27, 2009 4:02 pm

Yep Holly. I'm not much of a ghost paranormal kind of guy. For me ghosts are like UFOs smart girls from Oklahoma. I don't believe they exist.
I've camped in the Black Forest and never saw a spook and I once spent the night in a ruined 500 year church in oll' Blighty and slept like a babe.
My bones just don't get chilled. 8)

The last time I used a ouija board was right after I got drafted. A fellow conscript and his girl friend and I played with the thing all night. At some point I asked the board if I would die in Vietnam.
It said "YES".
When I came home I made sure to tell the board it was wrong. The ouija board replied: WHAT DO YOU EXPECT FOR FREE, THE AMAZING KRISTIN?
Last edited by Ronnie on Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Ronnie
 
Posts: 1344
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:09 pm
Location: Always in Texas

Re: Ghosts

Postby adam on Wed Oct 28, 2009 5:24 am

LOL I give it four smileys :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
User avatar
adam
 
Posts: 1913
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 2:16 pm
Location: A remote little mountain cabin in New England

Re: Ghosts

Postby adam on Wed Oct 28, 2009 6:14 am

I do think it's interesting the way that the memory of a lost loved one can haunt someone for years. I know I'm "haunted" in a sense by the memory of my mother. For Soap Opera fans, there's an interesting segment on Grey's Anatomy about Izzie being haunted by the ghost of Denny, a lost patient who she loved. This young 2nd-year resident, Izzie, had a patient, Denny, who died. She is haunted by his death and imagines that he comes back from the dead to be with her, even have sex with her. It turns out that she suffers from an illness.

http://ausiellofiles.ew.com/2008/12/04/ ... atomy-1-2/

Ghosts can seem very real to some people. It's easy for us now to scoff at scoff at some of the superstitions and beliefs of people who lived in earlier times, but I'm not sure I would have done any better. Only recently can we confidently say that we truly understand death, and there are still many unanswered questions.
User avatar
adam
 
Posts: 1913
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 2:16 pm
Location: A remote little mountain cabin in New England

Re: Ghosts

Postby Cedar on Wed Oct 28, 2009 9:19 am

I'm glad that the Ouija Board was wrong about you, Ronnie. It's probably not a good thing to ask something like that what's going to happen anyway, as the 'spirits' behind it (if there are, of course) probably don't know. Then again, there was the case of my mom asking and before she met my dad, so ... Hmmm.

Ever been to Goliad, Ronnie? Well, I know that of course you have been ~ just a silly and horribly lame question :) But there's a place that has a way of putting the 'para-' into a lot of normal people, or conversely, the normal into some 'para's' (my case). You could try staying overnight at Presidio La Bahia and see if that does the trick ~ I believe they do rent out ... perhaps a room in the old barracks?

Ich mochte Schwarzwald bleiben (?)! :party003: (Google Translate says ~ Ich würde gerne in den Schwarzwald reisen)

James, I have (or did have) something eerie which is close to Clyde, too ~ my old railroad section house in Pilot Point, Texas :!: I described my experiences there in some detail on the old message board (wonderful :roll: ). It really is the only place where things, well .... transpired which I can't explain away as being the result of a 'thin space' or time warp or something like that. But neither can I explain how my mirror came crashing to the floor by lifting itself up off its sturdy, angled nail :!: Oh well :|

Something interesting: 'supernatural' events often take place in areas of a structure which have been or are in the process of being altered. This was the case of my section house ~ the strange things occurred where one of the double front doors had been enclosed and made into a window, and also where a larger room had been made into two smaller ones and a door put in.

Adam, I know what you mean by feeling haunted by memories. So sorry for the loss of your mother.
History as the new religion? I can live with that.

~ Tracy Chevalier
User avatar
Cedar
 
Posts: 1400
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:19 pm
Location: Tejas

Re: Ghosts

Postby Cedar on Wed Oct 28, 2009 10:26 am

This is a nice feature ... run by Texas Monthly in their October issue :)

http://tinyurl.com/yz7572x
History as the new religion? I can live with that.

~ Tracy Chevalier
User avatar
Cedar
 
Posts: 1400
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:19 pm
Location: Tejas

Re: Ghosts

Postby adam on Wed Oct 28, 2009 12:17 pm

Quote:
The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. ~ Albert Einstein
End quote.

Love this quote. Not sure if he was kidding.
User avatar
adam
 
Posts: 1913
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 2:16 pm
Location: A remote little mountain cabin in New England

Re: Ghosts

Postby Cedar on Wed Oct 28, 2009 12:40 pm

I think he was dead serious. :? :arrow:
History as the new religion? I can live with that.

~ Tracy Chevalier
User avatar
Cedar
 
Posts: 1400
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:19 pm
Location: Tejas

Re: Ghosts

Postby Ronnie on Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:07 pm

Ever been to Goliad, Ronnie?

Yes but I've never spent the night, not even in a motel.
I have spent the night at Fort McKavitt. Since the management change I'm not sure they still let folks stay overnight. Didn't encounter any hain'ts but the sky was full of stars.
They have a couple of star parties at the Fort each year. Y'all ought to go.

http://www.fortmckavett.org/
Ronnie
 
Posts: 1344
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:09 pm
Location: Always in Texas

Re: Ghosts

Postby Cedar on Thu Oct 29, 2009 6:00 pm

What a neat site!

I've never been to Fort McKavett but would love to and need to go. I also am very drawn to old Mission San Saba (its story and remains). This part of Texas, too, is my grandmother's old stomping grounds (huh? Nah ...), and my great-grandmother's and great-great-grandmother's. We do live near Fort Richardson as well, and it's been far too long since I've visited.

I do love Goliad! The 'ghosts' of friars and soldiers and neophyte Indians singing Mass are not so frightening to me, but Zozo- and most EVP-types are.
History as the new religion? I can live with that.

~ Tracy Chevalier
User avatar
Cedar
 
Posts: 1400
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:19 pm
Location: Tejas

Re: Ghosts

Postby Cedar on Thu Oct 29, 2009 6:42 pm

Interesting 8)

http://tinyurl.com/yhbu3v7

Lots from this guy on the Web ~

http://www.ghost-stalker.com/

http://www.phantombookshop.com/

Somebody commented that he (Richard Senate) is 'living his dream.' Well, I guess there's one for everyone! Who could possibly conclude that this world is a boring place :?: :)

adam wrote:Quote:
The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. ~ Albert Einstein
End quote.

Love this quote. Not sure if he was kidding.
History as the new religion? I can live with that.

~ Tracy Chevalier
User avatar
Cedar
 
Posts: 1400
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:19 pm
Location: Tejas

Re: Ghosts

Postby Sharon Marsalis on Fri Oct 30, 2009 8:45 am

About 25 yrs. ago I read in some inspirational book about how an encounter with an "angel" by a very dejected and defeated George Washington transformed him into an energized winner.
I LOVED the story but bells went off so I researched it back then with no success and with no internet. I "put it on the shelf" where I put most things I have doubts or questions about and did not repeat it.. Then quite a few years ago Urban Legends did find it to be false. A literary fiction.
Now George was a Christian type praying man but this inspiring story was truly an Urban legend.

Just yesterday I heard a UFO/spirit expert on a local radio talk show telling this same legend as fact and proof that several Presidents had been influenced in decisions by a paranormal spirit ---wooooooooo

(The actual story was written by a Philadelphia journalist Charles Alexander in about 1865 or so and related to a speech Lincoln made. Alexander under a pseudonym wrote several "spirit encounter stories" for Union soldiers.)
So if you have never heard this story. Here is the usual scenario as told by an old man and eye witness to Washington named Anthony Sherman :

"One day, I remember it well, the chilly winds whistled through the leafless trees, though the sky was cloudless and sun shone brightly, he remained in his quarters nearly all the afternoon alone. When he came out, I noticed that his face was a shade paler than usual, and there seemed to be something on his mind of more than ordinary importance. Returning just after dusk, he dispatched an orderly to the quarters of the officer I mention, who was presently in attendance. After a preliminary conversation of about half an hour, Washington, gazing upon his companion with that strange look of dignity which he alone would command, said to the latter:

The Vision

"I do not know whether it is owing to the anxiety of my mind, or what, but this afternoon, as I was sitting at this table engaged in preparing a dispatch, something seemed to disturb me. Looking up, I beheld standing opposite me a singularly beautiful female. So astonished was I, for I had given strict orders not to be disturbed, that it was some moments before I found language to inquire into the causes of her presence. A second, a third, and even a fourth time did I repeat my question, but received no answer from my mysterious visitor except a slight raising of her eyes. By this time I felt strange sentiments spreading through me. I would have risen, but the riveted gaze of the being before me rendered volition impossible. I assayed once more to address her, but my tongue had become useless, even thought itself had become paralyzed. A new influence, mysterious, potent, irresistible took possession of me. All I could do was to gaze steadily, vacantly at my unknown visitor. Gradually, the surrounding atmosphere seemed as though becoming filled with sensations and luminous. Everything about me seemed to rarify, the mysterious visitor herself becoming more airy, and yet more distinct to my sight than before. I now began to feel as one dying, or rather to experience the sensations which I have sometimes imagined accompany dissolution. I did not think, I did not reason, I did not move; all were alike impossible. I was only conscious of gazing fixedly, vacantly at my companion.

"Presently I hear a voice saying, 'Son of the Republic, look and learn,' while at the same time my visitor extended her arm eastwardly. I now beheld a heavy white vapor at some distance rising fold upon fold. This gradually dissipated, and I looked upon a strange scene. Before me lay spread out in one vast plain all the countries of the world -- Europe, Asia, Africa, and America. I saw rolling and tossing between Europe and America the billows of the Atlantic, and between Asia and America lay the Pacific. 'Son of the Republic,' said the same mysterious voice as before, 'look and learn.'

"At that moment I beheld a dark, shadowy being, like an angel floating in mid-air, between Europe and America, dipping water out of the ocean in the hollow of each hand. He sprinkled some upon America with his right hand, while with his left hand he cast some on Europe. Immediately a dark cloud raised from these countries and joined mid-ocean. For awhile it remained stationary, and then moved slowly westward, until it enveloped America in its murky folds. Sharp flashes of lightning passed through it at intervals, and I heard the smothered groans and cries of the American people.

"A second time the angel dipped water from the ocean, and sprinkled it out as before. The dark cloud was then drawn back to the ocean, in whose heaving billows it sank from view. A third time I heard the mysterious voice saying, 'Son of the Republic, look and learn.' I cast my eyes upon America and beheld villages and towns and cities springing up one after another until the whole land from the Atlantic to the Pacific was dotted with them. Again I heard the mysterious voice say, 'Son of the Republic, the end of the century cometh, look and learn.'

"At this the dark, shadowy angel turned his face southward, and from Africa I saw an ill-omened spectre approach our land. It flitted slowly over every town and city. The inhabitants presently set themselves in battle array against each other. As I continued looking, I saw a bright angel, on whose brow rested a crown of light, on which was traced the word "Union," bearing the American flag, which he placed between the divided nation, and said, "Remember ye are brethren.' Instantly the inhabitants, casting from them their weapons, became friends once more and united around National Standard.

"And again I heard the mysterious voice saying, 'Son of the Republic, look and learn.' At this the dark, shadowy angel placed a trumpeter to his mouth and blew three distinct blasts, and taking water from the ocean, he sprinkled it upon Europe, Asia, and Africa. Then my eyes beheld a fearful scene: from each of these countries arose thick, black clouds that were joined into one. And throughout this mass there gleamed a dark red light by which I saw hordes of armed men, who, moving with the cloud, marched by land and sailed by sea to America, which country was enveloped in the volume of the cloud. And I dimly saw these vast armies devastate my ears listened to the thundering of the cannon, clashing of swords, and the shouts and cries of millions in mortal combat, I heard again the mysterious voice saying, 'Son of the Republic, look and learn.' When the voice had ceased, the dark, shadowy angel placed his trumpet once more to his mouth and blew a long fearful blast.

"Instantly a light as of a thousand suns shone down from above me, and pierced and broke into fragments the dark cloud which enveloped America. At the same moment the angel, upon whose head still shone the word "Union," and who bore our national flag in one hand and a sword in the other, descended from the heavens, attended by legions of white spirits. These immediately joined the inhabitants of America, who I perceived were well-nigh overcome, but who immediately taking courage again, closed up their broken ranks and renewed the battle. Again, amid the fearful noise of conflict, I heard the mysterious voice saying, 'Son of the Republic, look and learn.' As the voice ceased, the shadowy angel for the last time dipped water from the ocean and sprinkled it upon America. Instantly the dark cloud rolled back, together with armies it had brought, leaving the inhabitants of the land victorious.

"Then once more I beheld the villages, towns, and cities springing up where I had seen them before, while the bright angel, planting the azure standard he had brought in the midst of them, cried with a loud voice, 'While the stars remain, the heavens send down dew upon the earth, so long shall the Union last.' And taking from his brow the crown on which was blazoned the word "Union," he placed it upon the Standard, while the people, kneeling down, said, 'Amen.'

"The scene instantly began to fade and dissolve, and I at last saw nothing but the rising, curling vapor I at first beheld. This also disappearing, I found myself once more gazing upon the mysterious visitor, who, in the same voice I had heard before, said, "Son of the Republic, what you have seen thus far interpreted: Three great perils will come upon the Republic. The most fearful is the third, passing which the whole world united shall not prevail against her. Let every child of the Republic learn to live for his God, his land, and the Union.' With these words the vision vanished, and I started from my seat, and felt that I had seen a vision wherein had been shown me the birth, progress, and destiny of the United States."

"Such, my friends," concluded the venerable narrator, "were the words I heard from General Washington's own lips, and America will do well to profit by them."


Then the reteller always sums it up by saying how the narrator had personally heard the story, lived to be a 100, retold it many times in newspapers yada yada.

Actually on rereading though Charles Alexander (the journalist) might have been a visionary - and didn't know it :wink:
User avatar
Sharon Marsalis
 
Posts: 1828
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 12:10 pm
Location: Raleigh, NC


Return to Religion, Philosophy, Theology, and Sociology

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests