dallashistory

The following is specifically about Jimmy in the first down town location I visited but I think the procedure at the other locations was much the same.

To quickly answer perhaps the most important questions in Ms. Marsalis ' post I never saw Jimmy cooking chili and never spoke to anyone who did. I do think he used cut meat, small cubes, not ground beef or minced or chopped. Whether he cut it himself or ordered it that way, I am not sure, but I told the marmalade story because I think he could have done all the cutting himself. Also, I would certainly agree with her Mike that chili was not sold in the ice cream store during the period he was there. It was much later. More, none of this is getting us to a recipe. Rather, I suspect we are collating information for some writer to embellish and submit to “D” Magazine or Texas Monthly or a special in the DMN. But I’ve said that. If it should be one of the people on this message board, power to that person! I just hope I get to see it someday.

The quote from Mr. Sprengler about Jimmy and his cart is puzzling on two counts.

First, I never saw Jimmy dispensing chili from a cart. Rather, he had a pot of chili on the stove, already heated, and a covered pot of cooked rice (klind of like the big containers you see in sushi bars) beside the stove. He had a tray of service pats of margarine like you see in a cafeteria (he never used butter in my experience) and a tray of the dried powdered cheese and trays of minced onion and celery behind the counter. He also had a salt shaker and a squeeze bottle of "tasty mild Jimmy's sauce" as the menu called it. He had a paddle to put rice in the small or large cups and a small ladle to dip the chili with.

Second, I never saw anything resembling chili powder added to a rice container about to be served.

Although there is some discussion about which came first, the chili or the margarine, my memory is the margarine went on top. I can not now say whether he put the cheese on top of the rice before the chili or on top of the chikli before the margarine. Onions and / or celery went on top of everything so far as I remember. Omitting the addition of cheese, if ordered, his procedure then was:

* Use the paddle to put rice in the cup.
* Lightly salt the rice from the shaker. (I think that was more ceremonial than anything else. It probably kept people from asking for salt and there was none on the tables that I remember.) I never had a complaint about the dish being over or under salted.
* Stir the chili pot with the ladle and add one dip of chili to the cup.
* Add the pat of margarine.
* Ask if onions were wanted and add thiose. (I don't remember the onions being an extra cost item although again there are differences of opinion on this board. I don't remember how the celery was handled. I tried it, did not really enjoy the result although again some on this board liked it. I personally do not think celery was a secret ingredient.)
* Ask if (Jimmy's) sauce were wanted and add it upon request.

If you wanted a double dip then one measure of chili and one pat of butter were put in the bottom of the cup, plus cheese if ordered, and rice was added as above before topping it with another dip of chili and so on.
If you ordered a large serving then the bigger tub was half filled as described above and the process repeated.

Once or twice I saw Jimmy take a pot of chili from the refrigerator and bring it to temperature over a very low heat. He stirred it often enough to keep it frm burning and sometimes added a little water. He had a one man operation and was generally multitasking whie the chili was heating.
Chili dogs were made to order. I watched him heat the hot dogs individually in a small sauce pan. I don't know how he handled the buns, whether they were heated on a grill or what. Most people ordered chili rice.

All of the above is about chili. If you ordered the Chinese Chow then originally a small quantity of the prepared meat-vegetable-sauce mix was taken out of the refrigerator and heated in a same kind of small sauce pan. as used for hot dogs. Sometimes he added a little water. Today I see Chinese buffets with a more or less similar meat-vegetable- sauce. My memory is that Jimmy's Chinese Chow was better, but of course I've already told you my memories are up to fifty years old.

The last time I ordered Chinese Chow it was made from scratch, a small stir fry.

I did like the celery on the Chinese Chow.

I don't remember if he had soy sauce for the Chinese Chow but think he must have. Probably it was kept behind the counter.

One brainstorm of mine did not turn out well. That was getting a large tub and asking for an order of Chinese Chow in the bottom and chili in the top. The result was not good chili and not good chinese street food.

My memory is that the rare times Jimmy offered Creole Shrimp it was preheated and ready to serve. That would have been near lunch time and maybe he knew how long it would take to exhaust the heated supply. Certainly the quality of the shrimp should have been better if it was heated to order.

Thanks also to Ms. Marsalis for the additional information about the records available to those researching family history and the problems if no sure dates are available. A couple of questions occur. Would there be a “WW 1 registration card” if he enlisted as a volunteer before the build up of our army after our country entered the war? Second, is the date of death of someone with a similar name in Houston available? If so someone in Dallas might hunt for an obit in the Dallas paper or papers. Also, someone in Houston might hunt for an obit. Or is all of that on line nowadays? I know that Shanghai Jimmy was several times mentioned in Blackie Sherrod’s column while he was with the Times Herald. In part I think that was because the last offices of the TH were close to that original down town location of Chiil Rice. I don’t know if any archive of the TH is on line, or where the file went. Seems like I heard to the Corpus Christi paper but am not sure. Maybe some libraries have micro film of the TH but that would be tedious to check. Also, I don’t know if Sherrod ever mentioned Jimmy after going to the Morning News.

Would there be a “WW 1 registration card” if he enlisted as a volunteer before the build up of our army after our country entered the war

probably not since the registration card was for the draft thus no reason for a volunteer to register for the draft

This is still another item prompted by Ms. Marsalis post quoting Mr. Spengler. Je mentions using Wick Fowlwrs packaged mix with good results. I agree.

I have used the Wick Fowler mix and normally doctor it with more minced onion and garlic and added cumin. Also I tend to use tomato juice or V-8 juice as the liquid in the chili I make. Once though, I was making chili for a buch of tender mouths and followed the Wick Fowler instructions except possibly for using tomato juice. Also, I used twice the amount of meat, ground beef, as the instructions specified.

The result was a mild chili that topped with margarine and over rice I thought about as close to Shanghai Jimmy's as I ever made.

I still think though that Jimmy used cut meat. I would guess he ordered round steak sliced thin from the butcher and he trimmed it and cut it into the small pieces I remember in Chili Rice.

Ms. Marsalis and Mr. Howard, please look at my addition to PETERKs "Shanghai Jimmy" thread.

Having two threads here is geting confusing. Maybe we could use this one for the recipe search, and the other for personal info about Jimmy? I can edit my first post if that sounds good.

Here is something weird. Someone somewhere said that Jimmy put a powdered cheese somewhere. I think more than one person mentioned that? The kind of cheese that comes with mack n cheese.
Joe

With all due respect I think all Shanghai Jimmy posts should be combined under the heading Shanghai Jimmy because it is my understanding that one predates this, but really thing it is up to the webmaster or administrator.

keep all under this one since it has the most threads. no need to move anything. anything about Shanghai jimmy including his chili should be here

Well I just made a post at the other thread. There is some great info over there! Bill is right, it's up to you Mods but, my thread already has some recipe info, and the other thread only has personal info about Jimmy. There is so much to say about both. I could edit my starting post, and the thread title, to and say to talk about the Chili Rice here, and Jimmy on the other thread.

I am just thrilled that so much has already been brought up on both threads. Hey, I bet Jimmy would be happy to have two threads under "Dallas History"! And my Mom, who was a BIG Jimmy fan, would be happy too. Thanks yall!!
Joe

There are ways to get WWI service information, so that if Shanghai Jimmy was in the US military in or immediately after WWI (including the Vladivostok occupation), that can probably be verified. The genealogy experts should know how to do this. I don't, other than to know it can be done.

Sharon, good questions back on page 1 about anyone remembering details about Jimmy's chili. And, if anyone ever saw him make it. Chopped, cubed, or ground meat is a big question. Some of us do remember that it was a mild chili.

There is the text for Jimmy's recipe LP recording somewhere on the net, or there once was. If anyone could find it and post it here, that would be great. This is not the recipe he used for the chili rice, but I think it could provide some clues, maybe? The two things I remember are the lemon juice, and the bay leaf.

Assuming we may never find Jimmy's real chili rice recipe, the best we might be able to do is make a good recipe for chili rice chili, that is close to what we remember of what Jimmy served.
Joe

Joe, back on page 1 I posted Homer Burk's recipe which I thought was from the record. Is there --you think-a different one or at least a different rendition?

Sharon, daaa... I forgot about you posting that! Thanks, and thanks for posting it!

I forgot about the sugar, and the 1/2 flour 1/2 corn meal mix also. This, along with the bay leaf and lemon juice, are the only non standard chili fixins, I think?

I don't think Jimmy gave away all his secrets on the LP. I am still going with some type of slight celery seasoning, and the weird one... not enough soy sauce to taste, but enough to make a sligh difference.

I made a few post at the City-data.com forums for Austin (there was a Shanghai ???? chili rice place there at one time), and for Dallas, just to see if we might find someone new, who might shed some light on this.
Joe

Hi Yall!
Kinda late update from my post at the Austin City Data site I mentioned earlier. A guy from Austin remembered the chili rice place fondly, and like many of us Jimmy fans, tries to make the chili rice at home. He said the name of the place was "Chili Charlies". He rembers the rice as being Jasmine. My memory was just plain rice like I think Jimmy used. Hmm jasmine chili rice might be good though.

Sharon, sorry I missed your question. I have seen no other rendition of Jimmy's chili recipe.

Bill, I tried to make a chopped meat Jimmy's chili. It was hard chopping that meat into small enough chunks like, from my memory, might have been used in Jimmy's chili. I just can't get my mind around Jimmy, as a one man show, doing anything so hard. Maybe he had some trick though?

I might be close to posting my PopaJoes 2009 version of Shanghai Jimmy's Chili Rice. I want a few more taste tests from my family and friends first though. :~)
Joe

Joe,

I agree it is a lot of work. It might be that he ordered the meat from the butcher cut to thickness and that would save one step.

I previously have told the story about seeing him chop oranges to make marmalade one day which he did with great speed and industry. I know that orange peels are different than beef, but he was fast. I believe I also have said before that IMO he could have been a working line cook for about any place.

Hey Bill, great to see you!

Yes, if Jimmy started with thin sliced meat it would sure make things easier. Chopped vs already ground is still allot harder. Jimmy must have thought that the end result was worth it. Could it be that a butcher might do the whole process?

Bill, how do you feel about Jimmy cooking the meat Cincinnati Style, no browning? I have done this allot and it works good. For this you need a low fat meat because there is no draining. Maybe round steak? Those oyster crackers, and chili over something, make me think his chili roots started up north somewhere.
Joe

IIRC on that phonograph record that Jimmy made and which has several times been discussed, but for which we have no transcription, he says to brown the meat and to deglaze the pan. He said something like, "There is good flavour in those brown bits in the bottom of the pan."

If there is anything on that record applicable to the "real" SJ chili I think that step is part of it. I keep talking about my memory. I believe he also said the recipe was for his "everyday" chili and not the stuff we remember.

Having said that, again IIRC, there is a recipe in Tolbert's Bowl of Red for chili made without browning, You just put everything in the pot (well, maybe you add an additional quantity of seasonoing near the end to sharpen the flavour) and cover tightly without peeking and the juices don't cook away. I tend towards being a browner, so to speak, but I also have tried the low flame non browning tightly covered method and agree you can have a good result.

This is a point I wish Ronnie who contributes often to other topics on this message board would come in on. SFAIK he is the only person on this board who has participated in chili cooking contests. I hope he will post his recipe someday and also tell what he has observed in competition, browing, graying, or whatever.

So far as Jimmy's chili roots are concerned I suspect they date to the time of his military service. The standard USA Cookbook included a recipe for chili by the time he went into the Army.

My Competition chili recipe.

This is a good recipe but I have never won with it and the highest I've ever placed was fourth at the Republican convention in 1984. Since then I sometimes call my chili "I was Robbed Chili".

Meat - 2-1/2 pounds of cubed (1/2") chick tender, cubed (1/2") top sirloin roast, or ground chuck

Add 1 can beef broth, 1 8-oz can tomato sauce, Dump #1, and cook until the meat is tender.

Thirty minutes before turn in time add Dump #2

Dump - 1
1/2 TBSP Paprika
1/2 TSP Cayenne
1/2 TBSP Onion (powder or granules)
2 Cubes Chicken Bullion
2 Cubes Beef Bullion
1 TBSP Gebhardts Chili Powder


Dump - 2
2 TSP Cumin

1/8 TSP Brown Sugar
1 TSP Garlic (powder or granules)
1/8 TSP White Pepper
3 Gebhardts Chili Powder


Hint: Add water as you cook. If it gets too thin I add masa harina as a thickener.

Competition chili is a lot of work
When I make chili at home I use 2 1/2 pounds of ordinary stew meat, more Cayenne, 2-3 onions, and a package Sazon Goya and a couple finely chopped japalinos. And I always add masa harina to thicken. I eat my chili brew with flour tortillas and some grated cheese and drink ice tea.
UNTIL i SAW IT HERE I HAD NEVER HEARD OF CHILI RICE. But I don't get out much.

Ronnie, your competition chili looks pretty mild. I have the feeling you are just a bit young to remember chili rice, which seems to have disappeared (except from the memories of old codgers like me) from the Dallas scene by - I'm not sure. But maybe 1960s.

Clyde wrote.

Ronnie, your competition chili looks pretty mild.

Overly spicey cookoff chili is a popular myth.
Make the chili too spicey and the judges tongues burn up before they finish judging. It's all about the flavor, not the heat.

When I make chili at home it's a lot hotter.

Not intended as an insult - just an observation.

Ronnie,

Thank you for sharing. It looks like you are a "stewer: or maybe a "grayer" as opposed to browning the meat?

Thank you for sharing. It looks like you are a "stewer: or maybe a "grayer" as opposed to browning the meat?

Yup.

Bill
This is getting way off the subject of chili rice but I wanted to say I'm not a fan of the kind of chili found at chili cookoffs and think the best chili is made in people's own kitchens. These days competition chili has a certain sameness to it's flavor because it can't be too fiery or too innovative or different.
It's too complicated to be practical for a home meal and some of it is down right inedible after a day or two.
When we camp my son and I make chili on a fire with loads of peppers and onions beside the usual ingredients and only dump once or twice and just let it cook. It's damn good stuff but won't win no beauty contests.
And that's all I'm going to say about chili.

Camp chili

Clyde wrote

Not intended as an insult - just an observation.

I know Clyde but no chili head likes to hear that their chili is mild.
But you're right. It is a lot milder than what I like but that's the way judges want it and I can't blame them if they are tasting 25-40 different bowls

Ronnie...

Thanks for posting. Sounds great and I will try in on my next ChiliVenture.

I also use the Gebhartds chili powder. I order the large containers from the site below. The guy that runs it used to have a TexMex restaurant in San Antonio and is very good to deal with remotely. I also get his cumin and keep it in the freezer. It is light years better than the store bought.... not sure where it's from but is is really good.

[url]http://www.texmex.net/[/url