dallashistory

In fact, starting a thread on trains seems like such a good idea that i think i will.

In the Dallas area (and within fairly easy reach) here are actually a fair number of trains. They include the AMTRAK Texas Eagle, which runs from San Antonio (with a thru car connection to and from Los Angeles) to Chicago via Mineola, Longview, Marshall, Texarkana, Little Rock and St. Louis; The Heartland Flyer, also AMTRAK, from Fort Worth to Oklahoma City; a steam train from Fort Worth Stockyards to Grapevine; a very nice park railroad (ride on small train - 12" gauge I think) associated with the Fort Worth Zoo; and TExas State Railroad (Rusk to Palestine).

And of course there is the DART Rail light rail system and the TRE from Union Station in Dallas to T&P Station if Fort Worth - and a very economical day on the tracks (including the McKinney Avenue Trolley from the Arts District to City Place) can be had on those by buying a Day Pass that allows unlimited rides with on and off at no extra charge (also allows use of buses and the Fort Worth T - which has one line using a trolley-style bus from the Intermodal Station in Fort Worth to the Arts District there - Amon Carter, Kimball, Ft Worth Museum of Modern Art et al).

Any questions about other rail lines i can maybe answer?

The Texas State Railroad was in danger of becoming a static display because of budget problems with funding Texas State Parks. It is now operated by American Heritage Railways who also operate the famous Durango and Silverton in Colorado among other tourist lines. It appears they are a first class company and the future of our live steam trains is assured for the foreseeable future. The fare to ride has about doubled with the change but still seems like a good deal. If you haven't done it before now would be a great time to go. You can get a free brochure in the mail by filling out this online form.

http://www.texasstaterr.com/contact.php#brochure

Note that there is a surcharge for steam-hauled trains, and (as of February this year) only one steamer operating (the little 4-6-0, the oldest and smallest engine on the property). But it is a great ride, whatever is on the head end, and right now will be a pretty time to ride, what with the the stuff (including dogwoods, which abound in the area) that is in bloom.

They had a reduced price "Appreciation Day" for local residents (Cherokee and Anderson and adjoining counties) around Valentine's Day and we took advantage. Fun ride (we also paid the modest additional charge to ride in one of the climate controlled cars because we figured the weather at that time of the year is chancy - and it turned of cool enough that we decided it was money well spent).

Don't forget the pair of narrow gauge steam engines from Patoutville Sugar Plantation that run at Six Flags in Arlington.

And if you can make it over to Colorado and ride either the Cumbres and Toltec or the Dorango and Silverton; they are an experience never to be forgotton. Lots of other great "little railways" in Colorado; but these two are must-rides.

There is also a little steam-drawn narrow gauge (2 foot, i think, but maybe 3) line at Jefferson that does a few miles of running around the edges of the bayou.

Any questions about other rail lines i can maybe answer?

~ Clyde


I know that I will have We are just in the early stages of planning some itineraries. Most of all, I would like to gain an impression of the AmTrak experience these days.

My last journey via this service was during the mid-1990s. I'd wanted my son to have the chance to travel long-distance on the train. We rode from Dallas to Houston, and I am so glad that we did travel AmTrak.

But, we didn't depart Union Station till about an hour after the posted time, and we were almost two hours late arriving in Houston. This was not good, because my sister had a newborn baby then and had to wait so very long in the car for us.

Also (get this) ~ we shared our coach with a group of gentlemen coming home from a Leisure Suit convention lol They were very nice and considerate but other riders were not. By the time we got to Houston, we were with a party of weaving drunks and the toilets were all stopped up 'T'was very memorable (we flew home, by the way)

Any changes since then

http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentSe ... k/HomePage

PS. I hope that one day we will have widespread, dependable train service again. I very much enjoyed my (limited) experience of riding BritRail.

Possibily, maybe probably not. Some explanation:

The only tracks that Amtrak owns and uses exclusively are up on the east coast (the famous NE Corridor.) All other tracks are owned by the freight railroads and leased by Amtrak; including the ones here in Texas.

This causes two undesirable effects:

1. The freight trains are given priority over Amtrak; even though the contracts state that they should not.

2. The freight trains are very hard on the tracks; resulting in a bumpy ride and delays due to track repairs.

We rode the "City of New Orleans" out of New Orleans shortly before Hurricane Rita, and loved it. The train ran close to on schedule, and mostly only stopped at passenger stops. The boys could run around in relative safety on the top floor of the AmCoach, and there was enough room to lay back and snooze a little. There were only a couple of short stretches of track that were bad; although one bump in particular scared everyone; you though for sure we were off the tracks.

So, when we decided to take a vacation in San Antonio a couple of years ago; the wife took the car so we would have it when got there, while the rest of the family took Amtrak; my son-in-law had never rode a train before, and we were excited to show him what it was like, based on our past experience.

The trip was a nightmare. We were constantly sidelined to let the freights pass us, in addition to stopping at stations. We were also sidelined for something like a half an hour due to track work. It is fun riding the train; but not when all you are doing is just sitting there going nowhere, with the time getting later and later into the night. The end result was that we were something like three hours late; rather than something my son-in-law enjoyed; it soured all of us on Amtrak for awhile.

Union Pacific owns most of the tracks in Texas; and it is my understanding that is typical of how they treat Amtrak. I think the former Illonis Central tracks along the Mississippi River that are used by the City of New Orleans are owned by Canadian Northern now; and they treat Amtrak much better.

In closing, the problem with comparing the U.S. to Europe is the distances we cover are much greater than they are in Europe; and the rest of the public transist system once you get to your destination is also poor; so you still need some form of transportation when you get there. It is getting better in many cities; but in the past, many Amtrak stations dumped you in the middle of nowhere, so there were no rental cars, no bus or cab to catch. Many are now being integrated into transportation centers with some or all of the above, which will help.

Plus, with airlines such as Southwest, American, and Continental all based in Texas and offering cut-throat rates, passenger rail including high speed rail doesn't stand a chance in a state where having three major metro centers so close would seem like an ideal situation for high speed rail. (It brought about Southwest Airlines instead.)

Well, running late isn't unuisual, unfortuantely. How often and how late depends on the line. The AMTRAK website actually has a way to check on-time performance figures for about a week from the date you check for any given train.

Many trains tend to run full, so making reservations well in advance is usually a good idea.

We took the Eagle from Marshall to Dallas and back in '05 (wow - nearly four years ago). It was just about on time (ten minutes or so late) at Marshall, but steadily lost time to slow orders and was perhaps an hour late in Dallas. The return trip was an hour and a half or two hours late leaving Dallas and a couple of hours late at Marshall. Last time I checked, looked like it was running mostly close to on time most days. No problems with unruly passengers that trip and didn't notice any drunks.

We rode the California Zephyr Denver to Sacramento in October '05. It was on time leaving Denver, early into Salt Lake City - and five hours late into Sacramento. The SLC to Sacramento leg as apparently prone to problems (the crew had comments about teh Union Pacific that owns that trackage), which may or may not have been resolved.

If your trip will be overnight, I strongly recommend going first class. Our trips on Amtrak (as i say the most recent ones were in '05, can't believe it has been that long) have been pleasant despite the delays, and we didn't encounter any equipment problems like stopped up toilets.

Taking TRE from Union Station to Fort Worth (it runs on the old Rock Island/Burlington route through Irving), then going out to the Arts District, and return after a visit to the Amon Carter or Kimball is a lot of fun.

If you start in Oklahoma City, you can do a round trip to Fort Worth and back in one day; starting in Fort Worth, would have to spend the night in OKC and then leave early enough (unless you spent two nights there) that you couldn't do anything except ride the train, have (a late) dinner, sleep and then come back. But it isn't a bad trip - you run through some fairly interesting country.

Are there today in or around Dallas any large scale outdoor model rail roads comparable to the one you mention in the Fort Worth zoo?

When I was a boy there was one such in Preston Hollow owned, I think I was told, by a doctor. Several times riding around with my family in what was then far North Dallas we saw the owner and several friends throught the trees going for a ride. I never saw the locomotive up close. That was before so many large properties were split for sub divisions.

That old out door model railroad might have been a topic on the old board but I'm no longer sure.

Don't know. There may be a live-steamers club in the Dallas area, but if, i don't know about it. There is a difference in model railroads (even the larger "ride-on" sizes) and park railroads, and the one at the Fort Worth Zoo is a park railroad, not a model.

There used to be a similar park railroad at the Marsalis Park Zoo in Dallas, but it is no more. And there was was a shorter one on the Midway at Fair Park, no idea if it is still around or not, been a good while since I visited the Midway.

Well, I was afraid it was a stretch, but thought I'd ask. I don't think I was ever on the Marsalis Park RR and am sure with reference to the one in Fort Worth. There used to be one in the Oklahoma City Zoo also, which (I suppose because of the oil money) was vastly superior to the Dallas Zoo when I was young.

Clyde, the Jefferson & Cypress Bayou Railroad in Jefferson, Texas is 3-foot guage, and uses a Crown Metal Products steam locomotive originally built for a Florida amusement park in 1956. It is a very nice ride behind a real steam locomotive; they also have a luxury enclosed coach that they are/were planning on renting out on Valentine's day and other special occasions.

The Frank Buck Zoo in Gainesville has a three foot gauge park train as well; the engine is diesel powered, but is built on the same Crown Metal Products 4-4-0 running gear as the steam locomotive in Jefferson. It was built by two brothers who operated it at the 4-H Ranch in Wimberly, Texas; it was not running when we stayed there many years ago; but I have a postcard of it. It is my understanding it is running very little in Gainesville right now; but that is just hearsay from one of the groups I belong; please don't let it stop you from checking it out yourself.

The name escapes me, but there is also that little family park on a lake south of Gainesville and the new Noth Texas tollway that also has an amusement park train; probably the same equipment as the Fort Worth train. There was also an individual not far from NorthPark Mall (where the big train layout is set up at Christmas every year) who was famous for opening up his backyard layout to families during the holiday season. But, he became famous for something else this year -- he was arrested on charges of molesting a child that came to ride his railway. So that holiday venue is probably gone for good.

No longer any park train running at the Fair Park; at least not one I can remember.

Re-reading Clyde's original posting; I thought I should point out that there are two park trains associated with the Fort Worth Zoo. One is a train that runs inside the zoo; It is noteworthy because

A. It uses a Severn Lamb trainset from England. Severn Lamb makes nice trainsets, and this is one of them; but they are very rarely seen in the U.S.

B. It has stations at both ends of the zoo; so it is actually a tranportation system, just like the train at Six Flags. You can walk all the way to the end of the zoo, then catch the train back to the front. However, unlike the train at Six Flags, I don't THINK you can stay on, and ride around again; unless you buy a bracelet that gives you unlimited rides that day.

The second train runs outside the zoo, from the Zoo parking lot up north to the Aboratum(sp) and the park. It uses several of the trainsets most people are used to seeing, with the diesel powered steam locomotive that has the single large driving wheel; but is actually powered by two trucks with four wheels each on each side of the driving wheel. This park train is noteworthy because:

A. It also has two stations, one at each end, so you can ride it one-way from the Aboratum(sp) to the zoo. You can also stay on it, and ride it back.

B. It is the longest park train ride I have every seen; with one substantial bridge over the Trinity River, and well worth the price to ride it. It is a really nice ride in the late spring or autumn evening; when temperatures are mild, and the evening sun is doing it's play of colors all around you. It also crosses under a trestle bridge used by the Forth Worth and Western Railroad; sometimes if you are lucky; you get to ride under it while a "real" full size train is passing overhead.

Been a while since I was at the Fort Worth Zoo, and either i didn't notice or they didn't have the set in the zoo proper. I'll have to remedy that - am rather fond of park railroads (just as I am the big ones).

Wasn't aware of the one at Gainesville - will have to look into it.

San Antonio has a long-established park railroad at Brakenridge Park, as well as a short ride at the transportation museum there, using preserved equipment.

There used to be (and may still be - will have to check on it one of these days) a fairly short park railroad in Waco, at Lions Park. And there is one associated with the Ellen Trout Zoo in Lufkin. Another is in Hermann PArk in Houston - just outside the Zoo there and used to ahve an ex-SP 2-10-2 sitting right next to it. That engine has been moved out of Hermann Park and is now (IIRC) at Minute Maid Park (the baseball stadium that stole the former Houston Union Station (sadly long out of service when the ball park was built, but still...). Also there is a club layout for live steamers in Houston, that has open to the public operation most weekends from late spring to early autumn. I think they have both 1" to 1' (4-3/4" gauge) and 1.5" to 1' (7") trackage - inch to foot and inch-and-a-half to a foot are the commonest live steam model scales/gauges, with the 1.5" to 1' normally considered a ride-on scale.

It is to be hoped (fervently) that the move of the Age of Steam (or whatever they call it now) from Fair Park to Frisco will result in overhaul of the 7-Spot for service and a short, steam-powered ride there, and maybe a park railroad. The site would accommodate one. Or a live-steam venue for club events.

Oh - at one time a park railroad was contemplated at the Palestine Railroad Park, at the west end terminus of the Texas State Railroad. A few years ago, a car/engine-house was built and there was a stack of panel track awaiting installation, with some roadbed work started, but that apparently was cancelled, as nothing seems to ahve ever gone further. Didn't check to see if any of the stuff was still there when we rode the TSR in February.

survivingworldsteam wrote:The name escapes me, but there is also that little family park on a lake south of Gainesville and the new Noth Texas tollway that also has an amusement park train; probably the same equipment as the Fort Worth train.

Sandy Lake Amusement Park - http://www.sandylake.com/

Clyde, Gald to hear there is still some Train Service out of Dallas Union Station. As we have probably discussed before I use to ride the Train from and to Dallas Union Station many, many times back in the 1940's, 50's and 60's. Mostly I rode the MP/TP Texas Eagle to St. Louis or El Paso, the MKT/Frisco Texas Special to St. Louis and the Santa Fe (do not remember the name) from or to Kansas City, via Fort Worth, also remember making connections in Memphis and riding to Dallas but I was very young and do not remember what RR, maybe the Cotton Belt, you probably know. We recently rode the Grapevine train to Fort Worth again which is all right but I think they need to do some repair work on some of the tracks. This past Fall we were in Asheville, N.C. and while there rode the Smoky Mountain Express from Bryson City, N.C. thru the foothills which was a beautiful round trip ride..........Back in my childhood days besides riding the Trains out of Union Station I remember of course riding the streetcars and vaguely remember riding the interurban a couple of times to Sherman........Also remember the train at the Dallas Zoo and the one I loved the most was the train ride at the old Childrens Paradise which was on Clarendon in Oak Cliff...........Bill Strouse

Memphis to Dallas could have been Cotton Belt and just might have been Rock Island, depending on just how you came.

Service out of Union Station is - sparse now. Just the one AMTRAK (Texas Eagle), which is daily both ways, and then the TRE. And of course DART trains come though Union Station and have a stop there. Still, sparse service is MUCH better than none, and what there is seems mostly pretty well patronized (non-rush hour trips on TRE are often with pretty lighht passenger loads, but I hear it is SRO morning and evening; i can only speak to weekend and non-rush hour trips from personal observation).

I know that this route map is available through some AMTRAC links already posted... but I love maps and will post it anyway.

AMTRAC route map

I think the first maps that captured my attention were the route maps on the back of the T&P timetables that my Dad used to bring home. I'd spend hours looking at them and memorizing the order of the stops between Dallas and New Orleans.

Here in NC, we have a mildly popular route train route from Raleigh to Charlotte. If on time, it runs the route in 3.5 hours which is close to driving time. Sometimes folks here will take it down to a sports event in Charlotte.

We used the trains a bunch in Europe. Our apartment was 10 minutes from the Gare du Nord where the TGV bullet train departed. As an example, the train time from Paris was 1 hour and 20 minutes to the center of Brussels. Since most of my business was downtown Brussels, the door-to-door travel time was about 20% that of flying.

On a number of trips, we even took out beloved whippet Nikki with us. She would sit in our lap on the TGV (7 hours to Milan) or in the sleeper car over night to Rome. No cargo crates there for our girl.

Train was our preferred travel over there. I'm afraid that it would take a cattle prod to get me on one here (except for NE corridor).

MikeM wrote:I know that this route map is available through some AMTRAC links already posted... but I love maps and will post it anyway.

AMTRAC route map

I think the first maps that captured my attention were the route maps on the back of the T&P timetables that my Dad used to bring home. I'd spend hours looking at them and memorizing the order of the stops between Dallas and New Orleans.

Here in NC, we have a mildly popular route train route from Raleigh to Charlotte. If on time, it runs the route in 3.5 hours which is close to driving time. Sometimes folks here will take it down to a sports event in Charlotte.

We used the trains a bunch in Europe. Our apartment was 10 minutes from the Gare du Nord where the TGV bullet train departed. As an example, the train time from Paris was 1 hour and 20 minutes to the center of Brussels. Since most of my business was downtown Brussels, the door-to-door travel time was about 20% that of flying.

On a number of trips, we even took out beloved whippet Nikki with us. She would sit in our lap on the TGV (7 hours to Milan) or in the sleeper car over night to Rome. No cargo crates there for our girl.

Train was our preferred travel over there. I'm afraid that it would take a cattle prod to get me on one here (except for NE corridor).

Rethink that, Mike. It isn't the fast way to get there, but the California Zephyr from Sacramento to Denver (or Denver to Sacramento, the route we rode) is well worth the time and money. You see some really pretty country that (part of of it) is absolutely not to be viewed any other way. And the trip itself isn't bad, either. But - go first class (Sleeper).

Rethink that, Mike.

I will... maybe I was too quick on that.... or times have changed.

Our daughter took the train (when we lived in Chicago) on a school trip to Denver. The cleanliness and other passengers would have made a Greyhound Bus driver blush.

At least in the sleepers, things were clean and there weren't any really strange passengers. On the short coach (Marshall-Dallas and return) trip we took in 2006, things seemed reasonably clean and in order and nothing remarkable about the other passengers. Out of Chicago in coach - I wouldn't care to speculate as to what you might (or might not) encounter.

We finally took a little (very small) train trip ~ and I a few other short jaunts. We picked up the Trinity Railway Express at the Richland Hills station, rode into downtown Dallas, and took DART-rail northward to Plano. All was swift and smooth ~ and so much more peaceful and fun than making the commute by truck from Wise to Collin County. My only wish: that the Trinity trains ran on Sundays.

The trip was extra-special for my daughter, because she had never been to Dallas-proper. We arrived at dusk, and the very tall buildings and bright, colorful lights amazed her. We rode upstairs on the third floor

So maybe -- just maybe -- we're planning a short, weekend trip via Amtrak so that I can research a very sad, Texas story indeed (though contained in a lovely setting) ... and we can enjoy the sights and exploration. Then, maybe on to Florida later in the summer by the same rail service? How rough would that be, I wonder

PS. It is so sad what has become of the operation of the Texas State Railroad. Our state no longer is good to her parks.

Actually, the transfer of the Texas State Railroad to the private operator seems to be successful, so far. We rode last month, and if you didn't know it wasn't being operated by TP&W as it was previously - you wouldn't have known. It does aggravate me that we weren't willing to keep it a Texas State operation, but so far the change doesn;'t seem to have been a bad one.

Where are you planning to take the weekend trip?

And Florida - taht's a problem. The only way to get to Florida by train from TExas requires some really round-about traveling. Problem is that the Sunset Limited was annulled east of New Orleans after Katrina damaged the trackage along the coast east of NOLA. That has been restored, but AMTRAK has NOT resumed service (they claim that the suspension is "temporary", but there seems to be no effort to resume).

As best I can tell, to get to Florida by train from Texas (presuming all rail, starting in Dallas-Fort Worth), you'd take the Texas Eagle south to San Antonio (scheduled arrival 10:25 PM); Depart San Antonio scheduled 1:00 AM (only on Tuesday, Friday & Sunday, arr 4:00 PM); Crescent to either Greensboro, NC (leave NOLA 7:20 AM, arrive 1:38 AM, then Piedmont leaving at 9:21 AM to Rocky Mount,NC, arrive 12:30 PM) or to Washington, DC. From eitehr Washington or Rocky Mount, the Silver Star or Silver Meteor to Florida.

Given some of the times and the layovers, it ain't a trip I'd be happy to take and I LIKE trains. I would NOT recommend taking that route for a train trip to Florida (if the Sunset was running the way it ought to, that would be fine, even with the early AM connection at San Antonio).

Alternate would be Texas Eagle to Chicago, Capitol Limited or Cardinal to Washington, and Silver Star or Silver Meteor to Florida - change trains at Chicago and Washington, with better (more convenient and fewer changes) connections. Eagle gets to Chicago at 2:14 PM daily after a Ft Worth Departure at 2:20 PM (overnight trip). Capitol Limited leaves Chicago 7:20 PM, arrives Washington1:30PM next day. Washington 1:30 PM next day. Cardinal leaves Chicago 5:45 PM, arrives Washington 5:55 PM next day (yes - about six hours longer - more twisty, roundabout routing). Silver Star leaves Washington for Florida destinations 3:05 PM daily; Silver Meteor 7:30 PM daily. Given possible delays, I'd be inclined to take the Eagle to Chicago, Capitol Limited to Washington, and Silver Meteor to Florida. Unless i wanted to layover at Chicago or Washington or both and so some sightseeing before i went on to the next destination.

Timing at Chicago would allow arrival on Eagle, visit the Art Institute of Chicago, then catch the Capitol same day. Spend the afternoon and next day in Washington (Smithsonian and all that, eh?) , and leave in the evening for Florida. But - no matter how you do it, pretty round-about, and not that cheap, either.

Thanks for the suggestions, Clyde, but I fear that those routes and layovers would be too much trip for us. With passenger rail travel having degenerated into such an uncared for and un-kept state as it has in most of our country, the train is just not a long-distance option for most of us. That's too bad.

It isn't all that unkempt and uncared for, mostly, though the days of glass-smooth roadbeds and Chico hammering the Super across the Middle West at 100+ MPH or the diamond at Rondout being placarded to "Reduce speed to 100 MPH" are gone and won't return.

A bigger problem is the rather disjointed nature of the network, so that to get to Florida from Texas (or even Chicago) requires the sort of routing I pulled off the time-table. At least you can get to the West Coast from Texas without having to change trains (there is a through car on the Eagle that is cut out at San Antonio and coupled to the west-bound Sunset), though that can only be done three times a week, and it takes a while....

When we wanted to take the train (well, I - but Carlie was good and went along with the routing) when we went to California in 2006, we flew to Denver, spent the night there and then caught the CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR for Sacramento the next morning. Flew all the way back, though. It just about doubled the transportation cost part of the trip and essentially added two days to the trip (7:00 AM one day to 7:30 PM the next, though it should have been only 2:30 PM the next day - track delays on Union Pacific between Salt Lake City and Reno), but it was worth it - to us. We could ahve taken the Sunset to Los Angeles, but what I wanted was the ride though the mountains (Rockies and Sierra Nevada) so - that was how we had to do it. Wish the old Texas Zephyr still ran on what is now BNSF from D-FW to Denver.

As i say - unless AMTRAK reinstates the NOLA-St Petersburg segment of the Sunset, I wouldn't recommend trying to go from Texas to Florida.

Thanks again for all of the information you've passed along, Clyde. I wish we could turn back the clock just a little bit and retreat from our traffic jams and superhighways. They are bad for our nerves and well-being. Anyway, I like to read whenever I can and can't do that while I'm driving Don't you think that one day -- especially now that we know our energy sources are limited and fuel costs vulnerable to unstable fluctuations -- we will reconsider our transportation options more broadly in this country?

I have been browsing through a book on historic country inns of California and would love to ride the train out yonder in the golden West someday; see the coastal, Spanish missions, too

Oh, and make that trip to Mexico's Copper Canyon (if crime/ safety concerns grow no worse than they already are).