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WWII P-38 Fighter Discovered in Wales

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WWII P-38 Fighter Discovered in Wales

Postby MikeM on Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:39 am

WWII P-38 Fighter Discovered in Wales

AP Story Link

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NEW YORK (AP) — Sixty-five years after an American P-38 fighter plane ran out of gas and crash-landed on a beach in Wales, the long-forgotten World War II relic has emerged from the surf and sand where it lay buried.

Beach strollers, sunbathers and swimmers often frolicked within a few yards of the aircraft, unaware of its existence until last summer, when unusual weather caused the sand to shift and erode.

The revelation of the Lockheed "Lightning" fighter, with its distinctive twin-boom design, has stirred interest in British aviation circles and among officials of the country's aircraft museums, ready to reclaim another artifact from history's greatest armed conflict.

Based on its serial number and other records, "the fighter is arguably the oldest P-38 in existence, and the oldest surviving 8th Air Force combat aircraft of any type," said Ric Gillespie, who heads a U.S.-based nonprofit group dedicated to preserving historic aircraft. "In that respect it's a major find, of exceptional interest to British and American aviation historians."

Gillespie finds romance as well as historic significance in the discovery of the aircraft, long forgotten by the U.S. government.

"It's sort of like `Brigadoon,' the mythical Scottish village that appears and disappears," he said. "Although the Welsh aren't too happy about that analogy — they have some famous legends of their own."

Gillespie's organization, the International Group for Historic Aircraft Recovery, learned of the plane's existence in September from a British air history enthusiast and sent a team to survey the site last month. The group plans to collaborate with British museum experts in recovering the fragile but nearly intact aircraft next spring.

The Imperial War Museum Duxford and the Royal Air Force Museum are among the institutions expressing interest.

"The difficult part is to keep such a dramatic discovery secret. Looting of historic wrecks, aircraft or ships, is a major problem, in Britain as it is worldwide," Gillespie said.

British aviation publications have been circumspect about disclosing the exact location, and local Welsh authorities have agreed to keep the plane under surveillance whenever it is exposed by the tides of the Irish Sea, he said. For now, the aircraft is again buried under sand.

Officially, the U.S. Air Force considers any aircraft lost before Nov. 19, 1961 — when a fire destroyed many records — as "formally abandoned," and has an interest in such cases only if human remains are involved.

The twin-engine P-38, a radical design conceived by Lockheed design genius Clarence "Kelly" Johnson in the late 1930s, became one of the war's most successful fighter planes, serving in Europe and the Pacific. About 10,000 of the planes were built, and about 32 complete or partial airframes are believed to still exist, perhaps 10 in flying condition.

Another P-38, part of a "lost squadron" of warplanes marooned by bad weather in Greenland while being flown to Europe in 1942, was recovered and extensively restored with new parts. Dubbed "Glacier Girl," its attempt to complete the flight to Britain earlier this year was thwarted by mechanical problems.

The Wales Lightning, built in 1941, reached Britain in early 1942 and flew combat missions along the Dutch-Belgian coast.

Second Lt. Robert F. "Fred" Elliott, 24, of Rich Square, N.C., was on a gunnery practice mission on Sept. 27, 1942, when a fuel supply error forced him to make an emergency landing on the nearest suitable place — the Welsh beach.

His belly landing in shallow water sheared off a wingtip, but Elliott escaped unhurt. Less than three months later, the veteran of more than 10 combat missions was shot down over Tunisia, in North Africa. His plane and body were never found.

As the disabled P-38 could not be flown off the beach, "American officers had the guns removed, and the records say the aircraft was salvaged, but it wasn't," Gillespie said. "It was gradually covered with sand, and there it sat for 65 years. With censorship in force and British beaches closed to the public during the war, nobody knew it was there."

It was first spotted by a family enjoying a day at the beach on July 31.

The discovery was stunning news for Robert Elliott, 64, of Blountville, Tenn., the pilot's nephew and only surviving relative. He has spent nearly 30 years trying to learn more about his namesake's career and death.

All he knew of the Wales incident was a one-line entry saying Elliott had "ditched a P-38 and was uninjured."

"So this is just a monumental discovery, and a very emotional thing," said Elliott, an engineering consultant. He said he hopes to be present for the recovery.
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Postby adam on Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:56 pm

The P-38 model airplane that I made when I was young was one of my favorites. I still like the shape of it today.

http://www.worldaircorps.com/airplanes/am219.htm

There are some popular large Radio controlled models available of the P-38, P-51 and some of my other favorites.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_q ... i_n9324040

Although I'm 65 now, I think I would enjoy flying these RC big boys.

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Postby Sharon Marsalis on Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:02 pm

This is so cool!
The twin-engine P-38, a radical design conceived by Lockheed design genius Clarence "Kelly" Johnson in the late 1930s, became one of the war's most successful fighter planes, serving in Europe and the Pacific. About 10,000 of the planes were built, and about 32 complete or partial airframes are believed to still exist, perhaps 10 in flying condition.


As the disabled P-38 could not be flown off the beach, "American officers had the guns removed, and the records say the aircraft was salvaged, but it wasn't," Gillespie said. "It was gradually covered with sand, and there it sat for 65 years. With censorship in force and British beaches closed to the public during the war, nobody knew it was there."




The discovery was stunning news for Robert Elliott, 64, of Blountville, Tenn., the pilot's nephew and only surviving relative. He has spent nearly 30 years trying to learn more about his namesake's career and death.


What a BLESSING after 30 years!
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Postby MikeM on Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:19 pm

Adam... I always loved the P-38 as a kid... had the models and everything. During my last two years in the USMC I got to fly as the back seat in the OV-10 Bronco. What a hoot!

As you can see by the pictures of the P-38 on the left, the Bronco shares some of the same blood line.

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Postby survivingworldsteam on Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:04 pm

When I was a kid, 43-50281; also known as the Scatterbrain Kid; was kept at the airport in Lafayette, LA:

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Every other year, the LAGCOE Oil Show is held at the Coliseum (now the Cajundome) in Lafayette. Paul Fournet Air Service would fly in some aircraft for the show; landing them on Johnston Street, and taxiing them to the show grounds -- always a big event. The Catholic school I attended was right across the street from the show grounds, so we got to see all the equipment being set up, and got to the attend the show on the day it was open to the public. To me at least, it was always the highlight of that year.

Anyway, at least one year the Scatterbrain Kid was flown in for the show, and you could climb up and take a look inside. Needless to say, the show that year was the most memorable. I have pictures taken at that show in one of my albums.

Sadly, the Scatterbrain Kid was crashed into a road on approach to Lafayette airport in 1974; there was talk that the pilot, George Harper, was under the influence. He died from his injuries.

In later years, one could see tail booms in the Fournet hanger. Catching up with history; it appears that 44-104088 was restored by Fournet and the CAF as the Scatterbrain Kid II. Just 20 years later, it crashed at the Breckenridge Air Show in 1994 when both engines failed on takeoff. Maybe the name is jinked... :?
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Postby Clyde Howard on Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:11 pm

More P-38 blood-lines in the P-61 than the OV-10, I think.
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Postby MikeM on Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:27 pm

When I was a kid, 43-50281; also known as the Scatterbrain Kid


James... I had to read that several times to determine who was the "Scatterbrain Kid"... you or the 43-50281. :lol:

Clyde... I agree the the P-61 Black Widow was much closer kin... The Bronco was a few generations removed and had a totally different mission.

However, sometimes we'd land at private airfields on our cross country flights and folks would always say, "I haven't seen one of those Lightenings in quite some time..."

BTW, I assembled a model of the Black Widow as well.
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Postby survivingworldsteam on Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:31 pm

MikeM wrote:
When I was a kid, 43-50281; also known as the Scatterbrain Kid


James... I had to read that several times to determine who was the "Scatterbrain Kid"... you or the 43-50281. :lol:


Don't feel bad, at times, my parents had the same problem. :wink:
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Postby Clyde Howard on Thu Nov 15, 2007 3:56 pm

MikeM wrote:
When I was a kid, 43-50281; also known as the Scatterbrain Kid


James... I had to read that several times to determine who was the "Scatterbrain Kid"... you or the 43-50281. :lol:

Clyde... I agree the the P-61 Black Widow was much closer kin... The Bronco was a few generations removed and had a totally different mission.

However, sometimes we'd land at private airfields on our cross country flights and folks would always say, "I haven't seen one of those Lightnings in quite some time..."

BTW, I assembled a model of the Black Widow as well.


Don't doubt it - "Twin booms, must be a Lightning". Of course there was the FW-189 Uhu, of similar vintage with the P-38 and P-61 and similar mission to the OV-10.

I too have built models of the P-38 and P-61. In fact, I've got a P-61 kit (and a bunch of others, too) waiting for power in the hobby shed right now. Thinking of P-61s, I wonder if anybody makes a kit (or conversion kit) to produce the Reporter (F-15A) variant of the Black Widow. Or the P-61E two-seater day-fighter (that would have been something of a horse, I expect).
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Postby Fred Ragsdale on Fri Nov 16, 2007 2:45 am

An older co-worker of mine for several years was, at one time, the Deputy Base Commander at an AFB in either WA or OR State (can't recall which).

One Sunday afternoon, he and the second-seater were just doing a routine flight in a P-38 to get in their hours. Some mechanical problem occurred and they were going down in an area covered with dense forest. He managed to guide the plane into the upper most branches of the trees, which were 70-100 or more feet tall. It was like landing wheels-up on soft ground, except that when the plane's speed finally dropped off, the plane's weight also broke through the lighter branches and fell further down in the trees.

Both men were injured, with broken bones, and sitting in a plane essentially hidden in the forest below the tops of the trees, although they were still about 70 feet above the ground. Search planes were sent out when they didn't return after the planned short duration flight. The IFF transponder located them. .......They were in the plane in the tree tops for about 12 hours, because special equipment had to be brought in through the forest to enable the rescuers to get to them.

My friend LOVED the P-38 airframe that saved his life!

Fred
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Postby MikeM on Fri Nov 16, 2007 8:10 am

My friend LOVED the P-38 airframe that saved his life!


Fred.. amazing story and that was an airplane built like a tank.

Made me think of a story about one of the Marine pilots in my squadron. He was big... about 6'5" and 250. He had been flying a T-28 and landed at an AFB. This was the early 70's and the Navy/USMC was still using the aged aircraft for training when the Air Force had long moved to the sleek new trainers.

On landing, the gear on one wing failed to compress and the plane taxied to the fueling area with a major port side list. The AF guys were laughing and pointing, so my buddy opens the canopy and walks way out on the offending wing... jumps up in the air coming down with a crash on the wing... and the gear goes into place. The laughing stopped.

A lot of thes older AC certainly were build like tanks.

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Postby Clyde Howard on Fri Nov 16, 2007 8:35 am

T-28 was a pretty neat airplane,. though I've always thought I'd like one of the Turbo Mentors (the Beech T-34 with the recip replaced with a turboprop).
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Postby MikeM on Fri Nov 16, 2007 8:49 am

The USMC jet training path took an unusual progression of aircraft. They started out in the T-34 which was a beefed up civilian frame.... then moved to the tank like T-28. For those who went jet route at that time, they went to the T-37 which was a Cesna built primary jet trainer and then the T-38 for advanced jet. I always thought the T-38 was a really great looking aircraft... a rocket with wings! Kinda akin to riding a Nike. (about half of the Marines at that time finished jet with Navy and half with Air Force)

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Postby Clyde Howard on Fri Nov 16, 2007 1:14 pm

The T-38 Talon (and its beefed up half-sibling with more power, hard points and all that, the F-5 "Freedom Fighter") is quite a bird. Supersonic capability, apparently a real dream to play with and all that. And pretty. Real pretty, almost as pretty as a Starfighter.
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Postby survivingworldsteam on Wed Jan 21, 2009 5:07 pm

I didn't know this until today; but the remains of the P-38 (actually the F-5B photo recon version) in which Antoine de Saint-Exupéry disappeared was recovered off the coast of France in 2007. Saint-Exupéry was famous as an author as well as an aviator; his works include Le Petit Prince (The Little Prince), Terre des Hommes (Wind, Sand and Stars), and Vol de Nuit (Night Flight).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antoine_de ... up%C3%A9ry

I read The Little Prince, or maybe it was Night Flight; when I was in school.
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